John Maxwell reminds us time and time again that within every challenge is an opportunity to learn, grow, and lead. The challenge of uncertainty is no different. Uncertainty causes us to think differently and creatively, and to stay focused on the present. It tests our character, our strengths, and our wisdom.
In this episode, John teaches us to embrace these benefits of uncertainty, so we can lead when it matters most. In the discussion portion of the episode, Mark Cole and Jason Brooks discuss how to build and not get buried when uncertainty takes us out of “automatic.”
Our BONUS resource for this episode is the Embracing the Benefits of Uncertainty Worksheet, which includes fill-in-the-blank notes from John’s teaching. You can download the worksheet by clicking “Download the Bonus Resource” below.
Mark Cole: Hey, thank you for joining the John Maxwell Leadership Podcast today! Mark Cole here, and you're getting ready to hear John Maxwell speaking on Embracing the Benefits of Uncertainty. Now, Jason Brooks, no stranger to you, he is our Executive Vice President of Content. He's going to be joining me when John is done, and we're going to take some time today and not only break down what John shares as the “six benefits”, but we're going to give you application of how we're applying those benefits not only in our life, but also into the life of our organization. Now, if you would like to get the notes and follow along with John, you can go to Maxwellpodcast.com/benefit and click on the “Bonus Resource” button. You will get to see that as well as get to hear John Maxwell teach this incredible lesson in unprecedented times. Now, here is John C. Maxwell!
John Maxwell: Hi, John Maxwell here. I'm so excited that we can spend a little time together. This series just seems to be such an important time that you and I spend together because right now we're going through some very difficult dark times, and I consider that a real privilege and honor, an opportunity for me to come to you and maybe say some words that will give you some guidance, help lift you up a little bit, and certainly, be an asset to you as you have to get yourself through these tough times; you have to get your family through these tough times here, some of your friends, some of you have companies, organizations, teams, and so it sometimes it seems like in tough times, we need a message of hope we need a message of reality that helps us to know how to go and where to go and when to go. So, I just want you to know that I'm very excited about our time together. And what I want to talk to you about now is to Embrace the Benefits of Uncertainty. Let me talk to you about uncertainty today. You know, if you and I go to the airport, and we're going to catch our flight, and we get there, we find out it's going to be too delayed. Now, that's happened to every one of us many, many times. Let's say we have another connecting flight to get to our destination, our first thought when our flights delayed is we say, “Oh my gosh, I hope I don't miss my connecting flight.” So now we're in a little bit of a world of uncertainty, “Will my flight takeoff on time so I can make the connecting flight?” And we begin to think in this world of uncertainty. It causes us to be a little bit stressful, a little bit uneasy and we keep watching that board, we keep watching that board. And the longer we don't get an announcement, the more we kind of look at our watch, we're uncertain. I mean, it just uncertainty creates stress, and then all of a sudden on the board, we look up there now we see the real time that the planes going to leaving. Hey, it's going to leave even later than we thought, and now we know something…what we know is, we're not going to make our connecting flight. I give you that simple illustration because it's happened to every one of us. But here's why I give you that simple illustration, most people feel less stress with bad news than without certainty. Because with bad news, I can now go do something about it. I can now make a plan. I can now look at the other alternatives. You see, uncertainty just keeps us hanging. It's almost like a trapeze artist. As they're going from one bar to the other, they're just suspended in air, and basically, they're hanging. And I just want you to know that the reason that many people are insecure at this time is not because we're in a crisis and they're getting bad news. Well, that's definitely going to hurt. But it's because they don't know what's happening. They don't know what's going to happen. In the last three days, I have read 18 articles about the Coronavirus and leadership connect, and they all had only one thing in common only one thing in common and that is not one article had anybody that knew for certain when this was going to be over, or how many people were going to die, or what the financial effects were going to be to you and to me and to all of us, because we've gone through it. You see, uncertainty is full in the air during this crisis time. So how can I help you this week? Well, I'm thinking about uncertainty and I would like to talk to you about how to embrace, how to embrace and even benefit from the uncertain. I'm going to give you some things that will just kind of help you during this suspended time. Okay?
So, let's get going! Uncertainty number one, takes us out of automatic. You see what we really like is we like our life on automatic. That's one of the values of habits, good habits, good habits. We can go do things and we really don’t have to think about them, and just kind of cut through it quickly and automatic it a is a good thing. Most of us really like our day to just kind of be automatic. When I think of automatic, I think of what it likes, it likes order. It likes things to be natural. Automatic is full of assumptions, and automatic loves predictable, enjoys comfort, embraces certainty. That's what automatic looks like. A crisis is exactly opposite of automatic. Total opposite. You see, a crisis is a wakeup call and it wakes us up out of automatic. One of the reasons I wrote my book several years ago on Intentional Living was because it was a book that I wanted to help people get out of automatic, to be intentional in their actions, in their thoughts. So that they could maximize now because let me tell you something about automatic, although we love automatic, you and I don't maximize anything would run automatic. The reason? We're not paying attention, we're just letting it go as it has always has gone, and so therefore, when we're on automatic, we lack awareness, we lack an intuition. Automatic removes all of that and so, what we have to understand that we have to shift from automatic to intentional. And the moment that we begin to become intentional in our thinking, we go back to what I always teach, and you've seen me teach it before, I'm going to just share it with you again, real quickly: everything worthwhile is uphill. And the reason I love that statement is because it's not only true, but it doesn't allow you to be on automatic. A crisis, the difference is that everything worthwhile is uphill. And this is what uphill looks like in good times. It's all uphill still even in good times. Here’s what uphill looks like in a crisis, it's just a steeper hill and what you and I have to understand and embrace is the only way that we can have this wake up call to get us out of automatic that we can excel through this crisis is to become very intentional in our thoughts, in our actions, not accept our life, but to begin to lead our life. Let me give you a quick example of having a wakeup call out of automatic. When I was 51, I had a heart attack and I can tell you that was a wakeup call out of automatic because I was on a good path, things were going well. Hey, the night I had the heart attack I was going to the Christmas party of my companies, “Tis the season to be jolly!” I was going to be with people I love and we were going to enjoy each other and salute the success we had. I was on automatic and I had a heart attack. Now, that wakeup call shifted how I thought. In fact, I wrote this down because I don't want you to miss it. When I had the heart attack, one of the things I quickly in my wakeup call realized was that I had to live in the moment now because it's all I have. No longer did I ever assume I had a day I didn't maybe have. When I had that heart attack, the wakeup call for me to get me out of automatic was the fact that I not only had to live in the moment, but I had to fulfill my purpose. I was born for a reason. “Get on it, John. You're getting another chance.” That wakeup call that I had told me that I was going to have to be intentional. Just what I'm talking to you about right now. I had to be intentional, so that I could maximize my life, and getting out of that automatic, that wakeup call also shared with me that I had to be grateful. Just be grateful, because there's no guarantee of tomorrow I embraced each day after my heart attack much more than I ever used to before. Now, what am I talking about? That's what a crisis does. And I'm talking to you about how to embrace the benefits of uncertainty. Number one, uncertainly takes us out of automatic and that's a good thing.
Number two, uncertainty provides us leadership opportunities. It's leadership time. It's leadership time, trust me. And guess what? There's not a time now no more better than right now when people want to be led. During the crisis, people look around and say, “Where's the leader? Where's the leader? I got to follow somebody!” It's leadership time. You see, here's what I want you to understand. The people want it and the leaders love it! They love it. I'm very sad because we're in a crisis but I can tell you, there's something within me that is alive during a crisis, and as I'm having a privilege like this right now speaking to you, it just brings the best out of me because I just know that maybe you need me now more than you've ever needed me and maybe the message I have, you need more than you ever needed any message that I have, and so when speaking in a crisis, guess what people want? People want security, they want guidance, they want authenticity, they want understanding they want care, they want help, they want hope, they want answers, they want consistency, they want involvement, they want vision, they want visual assurance. And then, in a crisis, we who are leaders, get to give that to people. And in that crisis is where that problem is. But the issue is, every problem, every opportunity is surrounded by a problem. You never see opportunity alone. You see the problem, not the opportunity. You have to literally get through the problem to get to the opportunity. And guess what? During this crisis, all we see is problems. But let me tell you something in every problem we see if we can get through it. If we can get to it and through it. Guess what? Inside that, that's where the opportunity is, and I don't want you to miss it. So, we are surrounded by visual problems. Hang on, don't miss this! We are surrounded by visual problems with hidden opportunities. I either look at the visual problem and shy away from it and say, “Oh my gosh, I don't want to go there.” Or, I look at the visual problem and say, I will go there. Inside of there is a way to have a breakthrough. I know it is. There's always an answer. I don't want you to miss the opportunity because it's all around us. It just looks like problems right now because let me tell you something, when you miss an opportunity somebody will find it. So, I love when people say, “I lost that opportunity.” I say, “Well somebody found it.” But I want you to find it. That's why we have these times together. I want you to see the problems around you have within them the seed of opportunity. In fact, take a moment and just call a timeout for yourself and ask yourself this one question, “What opportunity is around me right now?” Look around! What opportunities are around me? Now, when you look around you see the problem. So which problem do you want to pick? That has the opportunity within it, my friend, Chuck Swindoll said, “We are faced with a series of opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible solutions.” That's where we live right now. So, embrace these benefits of crisis and adversity because it provides leadership opportunities for us. It takes us out of automatic.
Number three, it keeps us focused on today. You see, we're all uncertain about the future. The only thing that's real clear to us right now is today. I mean, let’s put this straight you and I can't Google “COVID-19” right now and ask when it's going to disappear. It's not going to give you the answer. So, because of this uncertainty, what leaders realize is that their best work is going to be taking care of today very well. And Mark Cole, CEO of all our John Maxwell Enterprise, Mark understands that so well and he and I had many conversations about that. And Mark is saying to me, because I love it, because I've mentored him, and he understands the focus on the day. What do we do? What's Mark trying to do right now? What am I trying to do? What do you need to try and do very simple: take care of your people, take care of your clients, and take care of yourself. Now, you say is that all I got to do? No, I didn't say that. But I'm saying you got to do that every day. This is where we focus on today. In fact, every evening I'm asking myself this question, “Did I lead well today?” Because today's the only day I've got and today has a crisis unless I'm missing it this day wasn't void of a crisis. We didn't have a break in it. I mean, it didn't all of a sudden say, “Okay, today is going to be an easy, more automatic day.” No, today’s got a crisis. I asked myself a need, “Did I lead well today?” And I ask myself another question just personal, “Did I live well today? Did I lead well? And, did I live well? Because let me tell you something…hang on, here we go, if I prepare well today, I won't have to repair tomorrow. Don't miss it! If I prepare well today, I won't have to repair tomorrow. The other truth is, if I don't prepare today, I will repair tomorrow. So, the clarity is now and by the way, everything around is changing. That's what a crisis does. And so, in the midst of this change, guess what I have, I have the gift of the day, and I have the gift of time, in my life, this may not be true in your life. In my life, I have more time to do things than I've ever had before because much of my responsibilities were cleared when this crisis came, so the question is not, “Do I have time?” The question is, “Am I utilizing that time? Am I focusing today?” And, “Am I making myself better that? Am I taking the gift of time I have? Am I maximizing it for my people? Am I maximizing it for you? Am I maximizing for myself?” You see, the question is, “Did I build in the crisis? Or did I get buried by the crisis?” It’s your call. Here's what I know, taking care today will help you build during the crisis.
Number four, one of the advantages in benefits of having uncertainty in our life is that it reintroduces us. And I love this word, reintroduce. It reintroduces us to humility. Now, maybe you are better than I am, maybe you don't need this. But I have a tendency to kind of work in my own strength and when things are going good, I'm not a reliant person. I, in fact, one of my early struggles in my faith was that I had a tendency to rely on myself more than I relied on God and I saw it, I just did it and off I went and so with the process of self-reliance, slowly, humility ebbs out of that, because humility is an awareness that life is bigger than us, and we can't successfully handle life without the help of others in my world, without the help of God. And so one of the great things that uncertainly happens in my life is that it reintroduces, it gets me back to where I need to be in the area of humility. Humility is the number one virtue I think of all. And why is it the number one virtue? I can tell you why, it reduces pride it makes us teachable, relatable, civil, approachable, selfless. Now let's understand what humility is, humility doesn't mean that we think less of ourselves, it does mean that we think of ourselves less; there's a difference. So, I'm not talking about being a self-depreciating person. We don't need that. But it does mean that instead of me thinking a lot of myself, I began to think a lot of others. You see, humility is the bridge between success. What I've done for me, and significance, what I intentionally want to do for others. And I can tell you, when we're in uncertainty, we don't have answers. It takes the bravo out of leadership, it takes that, “Well come to me, you know, hear, hear, follow me, follow me.” You know, when we raise our hands during a crisis of uncertainty and say, “Follow me.” To be honest with you, we're going where we haven't gone either. So, we need help. We need help from you and each of the people on the team, we need help from God. So, uncertainty reintroduces me, you, to humility.
Number five, uncertainty requires us to be creative. It requires you and me to look around and say, “Okay, wooh! Going to have to think of some new things here because what is normal is no longer normal.” Now, you know the characteristic because I teach this all the time is that creative people is that they believe there is always an answer. Trust me, that keeps you in the creative game. If I believe there's always an answer, I stay in the creative game. If I don't think there's an answer, why play the game? So, the tenacity, which is needed in a crisis and uncertainty. The ability to follow through, all of that is based upon, I know there's an answer. Remove that from the picture, and I lose my stamina, I lose my resilience, you do it. There is always an answer, it’s the driving force of a creative person and a crisis, what does a crisis do? Uncertainty, it squeezes that creativity out of us. So, here's what I share with you, in the best of times, I mean, when there's no crisis, in the best of times, when I'm talking to people about creativity, I give them an expression that you already know you've heard it thousands of times, the expression is, “Get out of the box. Get out the box.” Now that's in good times, because the boxes are where we need to be. The box may give you security, the boxes may give you the familiar, but the boxes aren’t where tomorrow is and it's not where your potential is. You got to get out of the box; that's in good times. In a crisis, in times of uncertainty, blow up the box. It's a whole new that you don't even have a box. Wow! So, what happens when you blow up the box? You can't go back to that secure environment that you know. You can't go back to what has always been done. A beautiful illustration of that is, again, when the Coronavirus came and Mark and I, we were over in Israel with some of our key players. And Mark is having to lead from Israel with this team over here and then coaches around the world, and I just so admired how he, every day stayed in the game and I was just there to serve him and I didn't need to butt in. But almost every day he'd come over to me and he'd bounce off kind of what he was thinking and you know, and I would just love on him and do my best to mentoring and help him just do this whole process. Okay? And so, you know, finally I could remember the day where I could tell you where, I could share with you where we're standing outside of the hotel in Israel, when he looked at me said, “I'm going to have to cancel the conference for coaches.” 3,500 coaches, were going to come to this conference. It's a rallying time for the tribe. It's the highlight of the year, we do it twice a year, but it's a highlight. This is where we gather together, and I just encourage one another and stay focused on our mission. He said, “I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to, yeah, we’re just going to have to cancel.” I said, “Good call.” And you know why he did it? It was best for the people. He put the people first. So, then he comes to me and says, “I got an idea, John. I'll tell you what, we’ll cancel the physical conference but let's go online and do social media virtual. Let's have our conference, and guess what? We can go from 3,500 coaches, which are basically, new coaches who have just joined us to 33,000 coaches! We can include all of our coaches around the world. Guess what? Because we're going to go online, we can expand that now!” Watch how creativity works, you see, the crisis creates the opportunity to be created. So now all of a sudden, we go from one place, one group of people, 3,500 potential, to 33/34,000 potential around the world. And then, Mark comes back to me and says, “John, I’ll tell you what we're going to do with your section, we’ll still be online with our coaches and equip them and do the things that we need to do with them. But let me tell you what we're going to do, we're just going to put you out on all social media. Your message needs to be heard by everyone, not just our coaching team. And so, we're going to put you out there.” And so, we went we went from 3,500 to 33,000, to a million and it's much more than a million now because it's gone viral. That's what a crisis does. It gets us out of the box. It's the difference between a good coach and a great coach. All good coaches have a pre-game plan, but only the great coaches make good halftime adjustments, and you win the game in the second half. It’s the halftime adjustments, the crisis, what we're going through right now what we're experiencing, it's the halftime adjustments that bring your team to victory. And I'm just going to say this because we're talking about creativity. When we talk about there's not, we're not going to go back to normal, there's going to be a new normal, I can tell you, I can already start to see some things just pop up above this crisis. That is going to change. Education is going to change, all the online work that kids are doing, they've never done this much online work and they've never done this much online work in a long period of time, you develop a habit in 30 to 60 days. Can I tell you something? There's kids online right now and saying, “You know what? I don't think I need to go back to University. I think I could finish my degree right here. It's a lot cheaper. I'm home.” Woah. It's going to change work at home businesses. There are people today that they're working at home, and they're thinking, “You know what? In cities, that's an hour and a half commute that I make every day. one way, two, three hours, maybe lost in a commute. I wonder if I could do this. I wonder if I could do this at home.” Now, businesses are going to say, “Do we need the office space we need?” Colleges, schools are going to say, “Do we need all the facilities that we have?” I just gave you the tip of the iceberg but what's happening? The crisis and uncertainty is giving us a different way to live, which out of it comes creativity until some of the things, not all the things, but some of the changes we have, we're going to be better on the other side because we had the crisis because it's just going to give us a new way of thinking and a new way of doing. Okay? One more advantage and benefit of uncertainty.
Number six, it tests our teaching. It tests my teaching. Here's what I mean, as a leader, I'm constantly teaching and I'm giving people words, I'm writing books, I'm doing what I'm doing now I'm giving you words. In good times, words come very quickly, easily, and cheaply. But in a crisis, we find out if there's a gap between the leader’s words and the leader’s actions, because you see the crisis is not a teaching form now, it's a living form and all of a sudden, what I taught when things are going well have to have the pressure and the heat and the fire of things when they aren't going well to see if what I taught is what I live because all great leaders, what they teach is what they live you can't separate the two of them. So, there's a gap many times crisis gives a gap. Here's what I said, at good times, here's how I live in bad times. This is the principles I taught in good times but now that the bad times are here, boy, this is what I find myself migrating to. So for example, in leadership what do we teach people first? We add value to people that's who we are, that's what we do. We are people to value who add value to people that's who we are. So, when the crisis comes, we ask ourselves, we find out are we really people first? Or, are we me first? Are we looking for ways to escape and not have much harm to us and well, I'm so sorry about those people. One of the things I so admire about Mark is I've watched him, is he's constantly putting people first. We're losing money. It's not good. People first, people first. We're not able to hold on to some of the things, people first, people first. You see, uncertainty test our words and if our words and our actions come together during a crisis, guess what? That's where we get moral authority. When we get through it people say, “Okay, I heard him in the good times. But I watched him in the bad times.” And they're congruent. They're compatible. He is who he says he is. She is who she says she is. Okay, can I have the whole, I don't know? Six more minutes with you? Just there's, just one other add on, and I could stop now but I just don't want to stop quite yet. Because I feel that I'm helping you. Because as I think of what I've taught about how Embrace the Benefits of Uncertainty, let me just take you a little further just wrapping this up. Give me just a few more minutes. So, let me share with you what leaders have to offer people during times of uncertainty because there's really no playbook to pick up as a leader and say, here's what you offer to people when things are uncertain. So, let me give them to you and these are just personal, they're kind of easy. Here's what's beautiful everything I'm going to share with you right now you can do for your people. You can do this for your family, your friends, your team. Okay, here we go. Offer, Number one, continual hope. It’s just the fuel that gets people through the day. Okay? And let me just say this hope, let me define this maybe, differently than any time I've talked to you during this crisis time. What I want you to do is I want you to take reality what is, and I want you to surround it by hope. Reality is the core of what you have to deal with, but hope is what keeps people going. James Stockdale, when he was the highest enlisted officer that was in the Vietnam War, a prisoner of war, and when he came through it, they interviewed him and asked him how he made it through it, and he said something that was very interesting. He said, “Some people made it, some people didn't.” Then he said, “The people that were pessimistic, of course, didn't make it. He said the people that are optimistic, stayed longer and hung in there longer, but they didn't make it either.” He said, “The ones of us that made it, the optimist said, ‘wow, you know, we're in prison, but boy, by Thanksgiving, they'll come and rescue us. Oh, well. It didn't happen.’ Oh, by Christmas they’ll rescue us. Oh, well by my birthday they’ll come.’ And they kept setting the date that of relief and optimistically without any sense of realism to and they kept getting disappointed, disappointed, disappointed, and finally they gave up.” Stockdale said very simply, he said, “Every day, I realize it was tough. I didn't like it. I had no idea how long it would go. So, I realistically said, this could be a long time.” But he also said, “But my optimism said, ‘But we will be delivered.’” So, his optimism allowed him to have realism that gave him tenacity to get through. That's the kind of hope you want to provide for your people. Number two, give them grace and compassion. During a crisis, during uncertainty, everybody needs a break. Just got to give people a break. Here's what I know about you, about me, about all of us, most of us are not our best under stress, and so as a leader, when I see stress come into a person's life, most of the time, I'll say to myself, they won't be operating at their best level right now. I consider that and I give them a break. I give them compassion and grace. I extend that to—by the way, I do think one of the differences between leaders and followers is I do think that during the crisis for leaders, it brings out their best so I believe that for leaders stress makes them better. But for most people, we're talking about most people, our families, people we lead, give them a break. Give them some compassion. Number three, offer them thought fullness, be thoughtful. What I mean by that is just walk slowly through the crowd. Listen to them, listening is so important. Hear their voices, reflect, come back to things that they've said and build on it. Maybe they look at you and realize that you aren't making decisions rationally, that you're deliberate, you're thoughtful, you're considerate. There’s a grace and a maturity in that kind of leadership that gives people confidence in you. Number four, just be patient and calm. Because everybody's adjusting, and when everybody is adjusting, emotions are not very stable. And again, just like stress, when people are adjusting, they are not at their best. And what happens is during this kind of a crisis, I haven't really talked about this, maybe I'll do this in a next maybe another lesson. Visual awareness of the leader and his or her conduct is huge for people. In other words, during a crisis, if the leader is calm, the people feel secure. Your demeanor, your actions as a leader, you know, so if you're calm, if you're patient, it just sets everybody at ease. Number five, just offer them your best preparation. You don't have all the answers but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking for answers. And you know as a leader, you hope for the best but what you do? You prepare for the worst and by the way, you don't prepare for the worst without hoping for the best. And you don't hope for the best without preparing—they’ve got to stay together, they've got to stay together. This is not “either or” this is “both and” Offer them continual communication. The more nervous people are the more they want to hear your voice. Don't just talk though, that after a while can get on anybody’s nerves, even in a crisis. When you talk, ask yourself, “Am I sharing something that's helpful to them?” “Am I sharing something that perhaps I've never shared with them before?” It's kind of like when I come in and have these times with you I look and say, “Okay, what can I give you that is new and fresh that will maybe give another insight, maybe a different perspective?” Offer them, of course, be trustworthy, give them trustworthiness. People more than anything else, just more than looking for your answers as a leader, they want to trust you. When I trust a person, it doesn't mean that they always do the right thing or that they always have the right answer, they always make the right decision, but it does mean that I can count on them. They're reliable. I can lean on them, and then I would just say what I shared earlier and that is just keep focused on today and here's what you want to do, you want to help people get small wins. [INAUDIBLE] You want to help them get small wins today, if they can just get a win or two just a win or two every day, those wins begin to compound and after a few weeks in the crisis, they look back and say, “You know, I've had a dozen pretty good wins here, I stopped, and he's just been uphill all the way.” But, just help them win a little bit, give them small wins, and then, you know, get in the game with them and applaud them and do that. And the reason we focus on today is because you just want to take control of what you can control. Most of the stuff in this crisis and uncertainly we can't control, but just grab what you can. Okay, my name's John. I am your friend. I hope this has helped you.
Mark Cole: Alright, Jason, welcome back! Everybody listening to the podcast Jason, Embrace the Benefits of Uncertainty. That sentence don't even know if it computes until we just heard John speak about it. And I'm going to tell you, now that he has given me a different perspective, not only of uncertainty, but also given me a different perspective of what I see as beneficial. I've really, as a leader leading in crisis, I've really been impacted here. And you and I are attempting to lead a company, a group of people through this crisis. And this was a great help, wasn't it?
Jason Brooks: Man, when he first recorded this, and I got the privilege of listening in on it with you and a couple other folks, I was blown away by the timeliness of the message. One because of all the things that I've learned from John, the ability to look for what's good in any situation has been the most beneficial to me. I mean, hands down it's changed a lot of the way I live my life. But for him to even come out with this and to come out with such practical, tangible, helpful stuff. I mean, it was really, really remarkable and I love that he started with a common uncertainty that we all sort of knew right? You know, the whole airport analogy. I am a terrible flyer. I'm the kind of guy that gets to the airport like three hours before the plane is supposed to leave. I want to be checked in and sitting in the lobby as prepared and ready to go. And, even then, I still have anxiety and uncertainty.
Mark Cole: I think we have traveled together that about killed you on that trip, right?
Jason Brooks: Yes, yes, I had been there for three hours and literally I was in the dreg class. I was like the last people on board and with like five minutes to spare, I go to get on the plane and you came like literally right in front of me and just breezed on in looking cool as a cucumber talking to people in your air pods, and I thought, I would die. I would just, I would die, the anxiety would eat me alive. There's no way. But you know, we're all wired a little bit differently. But I love that John extrapolated from that, because you know, that's a, that's a common uncertainty. But what we're talking about now is a universal uncertainty. This is something that everyone's having to face. And we've talked about this a number of times. But I think what gets lost sometimes Mark is that we forget that we've overcome even common uncertainties in the past. We kind of look at this one and give it way more credibility or credence that it's going to be something that defeats us or undoes us. And John is saying, “No, this is like almost any other uncertainty. There are things here, if you know where to look for them.” And he launches into the benefit of uncertainty and to me is just a really, really powerful lesson. And the first thought that he had, and I like this because I'm not a terribly rote person, I'm not a schedule machine, I have habits, I have rhythms. You know, some people are scheduled to the hilt. I kind of build my work life and my regular life around seasons. You know, I sort of you know, I can sprint and then maybe there's a little bit of lag where I refuel, redo things or recharge in certain ways. But even those seasons kind of become habitual or automatic or predictive. And John says that one of the first benefits in uncertainties that it takes us out of automatic. Now, you're a CEO, you're a business owner, I would assume that there are few things more comforting than just a nice, predictable, steady business. So, talk to me. How do you respond to John's assertion that there's a benefit in being taken out of that automatic space?
Mark Cole: You know, we listen to this lesson that John did, Jason, you and I and our ten, there's ten of us on our leadership team, eleven counting me. And we listened to this lesson on live together a few days ago. And, this was probably my favorite takeaway. This first one, take us out of automatic. And let me explain, it's going to take me just a minute. Now, one, for all of you listening on podcast, is it not cool to have a message from John, relevant to the time right now and then for Jason and I, to be able to break it down and tell you how we're applying it right now? I'm extremely grateful to John Maxwell for doing these lessons of leadership when it matters the most. I'm thankful to Jake, our team, that turns it around so that we can have it in our podcast format just within days of John delivering it. It's a team effort. It takes a village. But we really are, through this podcast, we're attempting to bring you a format that you love. John Maxwell content, me and a cohost giving you application. But we're doing it at a time when leadership is needed most. John's a little brand that we have going right now. So, we're having a leadership meeting, and we stopped the leadership meeting for everybody to go and listen to this lesson. Now, this was just Monday, two days ago. We listened to it. And then John, we come back, and we spend time talking about our greatest takeaways. And you'll remember, Jason, my greatest takeaway was this point right here: it takes us out of automatic. Now, you also will know in that same leadership meeting, and this is where I want to just take a couple of minutes in this podcast and explain application. Because one of the things I'm teaching right now on some other avenues and venues that I teach, is I'm teaching that, resilience is the indicator. The greatest indicator of players and pretenders. John did a few podcasts ago, he did a talk about being a player or a pretender during crisis, it kind of reveals whether we're a player or a pretender. One of the greatest attributes or characteristics of a player, somebody that really is a leader, is resiliency. The ability to be resilient, and I use the example of Abraham Lincoln in a talk that I did just last night. Abraham Lincoln lost, lost, lost, lost, lost, lost, lost but he kept coming back. He's kind of like, I don't know the name of this toy, Jason, you may remember, but you remember the toy—my grandson has one, it has sand in the bottom of it, you blow it up and you punch it and it goes down on the ground and then pops back up.
Jason Brooks: Yes, the punching clown!
Mark Cole: The Punching Clown! Thank you! It's so sophisticated of a name, I could remember it! The Punching Clown! And that's the picture that I had in my mind as I was teaching resilience. It's like, I mean, how many of you on this podcast heard bad news today? In the last hour? In the last five minutes? How many is scared to press pause on the podcast right now, because you're afraid the phone call that's coming in is another set of bad news? Yet, you keep coming back. It's resilience. And so, but at the same time, in resilience, a big part of resilience is consistency. Now, wouldn't you like as you just asked me to have a consistent business model right now? Yes, I would. But that's not a luxury that I have today. But there are things that I must be consistent about, Jason, our values, our vision, our purpose. Crisis doesn't change those. In fact, it boldens those, it brightens those. It's like the Punching Clown. You hit a vision and you go, “Oh! it popped back up. Yep. That's the vision.” It's this consistency, this resiliency. So, here's my point, so yesterday, I told our team or two days ago, I told our team I said, “Gang, one of our consistent values that's going to show our resilience is our value of growth. We believe we have to grow.” John Maxwell says, “I couldn't do a goal setting seminar with integrity.” And he's right. We've never ran our businesses by goals. We've always ran it by growth. Well guess what's happening to our bottom line, to our revenues, to everything we're doing right now? It's in a freefall. You can't grow in freefall. But yet, it's our value, and we must still continue to show our value. So, I looked at our leadership team, and by the way, we're social distancing. So, I looked at him on Zoom, and I looked at every one of them and I said, “Quit comparing your current performance by last year this time or this year.” Because they kept saying, “Oh, we're about 58% off of where we were last year. We're about 48% off of where we were, we're supposed to be this year.” I’m going, “Okay, stop the madness. We're off. Everything's off. Everything's being reset right now. So, here's what I want you to do, based on what you know, today, I want you all to create a 75-day business plan.” And I said, “There's two reasons I want to 75-day business plan. We need to have a business plan that really matters more than the paper it’s printed on, one, but two, we got to continue establishing our value even in this crisis of growing. So, give me your bare baseline projections of the next 75 days because I'm trying to create a floor in this crisis so we can then continue to exceed expectations because that's our that's another value. We exceed expectations. You can't exceed expectations if you have no set expectations. You can't, ‘I exceeded expectations.’ ‘Well, what were the expectations?’ ‘I don't know. But I exceeded them.’ That's asinine. That's not even case you're not capable of it.” So right now, we're in such a freefall that there are no expectations, therefore, we can't live out our value of exceeding expectations. So, I looked at our leadership team, and I said, “Go give me 75-day expectations. I don't know if they're going to be right. I don't even know what next week's go to hold. But we better set some expectations in light of where we are, so we can continue living our value.” And that takes us out of automatic. We've never done a 75-day business plan. We are not in predictability right now. But we still have to lead, and I think it's making us better.
Jason Brooks: I would agree with you. And I think one of the things that really impressed me with the leader team call was you came out and you re-oriented us on the vision that John had for our one company. John had in October of 2018, John gave you and some of the other leaders 10 statements, 10 things that were his vision and his desire for the company moving forward. And before we ever got to anything else, you reoriented us around those 10 things. And you know, I read something the other day, and I think it was from Forbes, they were talking about, you know, when you can't measure growth by the same predictable numbers, what new categories of growth are you going to measure? And so, you know, how many books am I going to read? How many, you know, online classes am I going to take? What are the things that I'm going to do to ensure that I'm continuing growing? And you didn't let the team lose sight of the vision. You recast the vision for them, so that whatever those 75-day plans may come back as they'll at least be oriented and true to what the vision is for where we're at.
Mark Cole: I love that you said that, Jason, because it's another way to further underscore, take us out of automatic. You see, it's good to take us out of automatic. But if you take a car out of automatic and don't put a block under it or don't put the feet on the brakes, you're going to end up with a crash. I'm okay with John's point of taking us out of automatic. I'm even okay with that being a benefit of uncertainty. I love it. In fact, it was my favorite point that he made in this lesson. It's my favorite point for right now, by the way, we're going to go to the second one in a minute. But it's my favorite point. But here's the point. As we're taking our teams out of automatic, we've got to remind them about the things that they can count on the things that are consistent. And so, I was, I was taking our team out of automatic in that leadership meeting, but I felt really compelled to remind them of the vision and the vision supersedes automatic predictability, so let's adapt to get to the vision. You adapt because of crisis and you're going to be chasing your tail. You adapt because everything's in a whirlwind, you're going to be tossed to and fro. But you adapt, because our vision requires us to adapt in today's economy that makes coming out of automatic not only worth it, it makes it sensible to a leadership team.
Jason Brooks: You see, and that's fascinating too because even in predictable, steady, easy, good times, right? A vision is something that's so difficult, huge, large to try and achieve that there's no set simple path for getting there. So even in good times, a vision is bound up in uncertainty. So, it stays to your point, of consistency. It stays something that even in uncertainty around everything else, that vision piece still remains. Man, that is good stuff, and that was really, that stood out to me on that call on Monday. I was like, “I love that he's reframing it, resetting it and bringing us back to the foundation.” But the next time thing that John talked about. And you know, we've talked about this a lot, is that one of the benefits of uncertainty is it provides leadership opportunities. And John makes an interesting point that during times of crisis when things are so unsteady and unsecure, people are more than willing to give away their followership. They're more than willing to give away their attention and their time to people who are willing to lead them. What is it about uncertainty that makes people so willing for a leader to step into their lives? And how do we as leaders’ step into that with good values and resist the temptation to maybe take people in a wrong direction?
Mark Cole: Yeah, I love the question, and I love how you're layering that question because in times of crisis, many times people have a chance to pull back. They're less trusting. “Why did I let the man the J-O-B, my job, why did I let it get me in a place like this before?” We've seen in 2007, 2008? We wanted to blame the bank and mortgage industry. We wanted to blame the real estate market. It's so often in times of crisis that you see some people react and say, “Oh, I don't know that I'm going to be trusting of coming out of automatic. I need the system.” I have found and I think we're in the greatest crisis of my lifetime. I'm 50 years old. John says it's the greatest crisis of his lifetime. He's 70 plus years old. I'm going to tell you, I think that the level of crisis drives the level of people's ability to trust others in uncertainty. You know that they say that in times of crisis like this, that people come to a greater sense of faith or a greater depth to their faith in times of crisis. It happened on September the 11th, 2001 in New York. I mean, the amount of people that became patriotic or the amount of people that became grounded in their faith or in a faith was huge. And I think it's the same thing. I think it's the same human tendency that you're asking right now. People will get out of uncertainty that normally wouldn't in great times of crisis, because they are starting to see we need to re-define our self in this time. That's why one of the other buzzwords right now, Jason, that you and I have used and we're hearing it used a lot is “new norms”. It's going to be a time of new normals. I'm not here to have that conversation today. But here's what I am telling you, we will not be the same ever because of the Coronavirus-19. We will not. I told my daughter yesterday, I said, “Macy, take great note of what you're learning here because you will reference this time as a 13-year-old, for the rest of your life.” It happened to me when the space shuttle crashed with Christa McAuliffe, the schoolteacher on board. I'll never ever, ever, ever forget that. It happened for me at 9/11 and I watched live, those buildings crumble. I referenced that as a point of learning growing and re-definition, still today, many years later, and I told my daughter, I said, “Macy, you will reference this period of your life for the rest of your life. Take note.” And that's because we're all getting out of automatic and we're all redefining ourselves.
Jason Brooks: Man, we're going to be in trouble. There's so much we can do here. There's so many follow up questions. I'm going to move on, I'm going to move on to point three, because there is there's a tie in there. John's third benefit was that it, that uncertainty keeps us focused on today. And it's ironic that you were just saying, you know, that people will remember today as a hinge point of their personal history or national history, or global history, and they'll refer back to it but one of the things has been interesting after 9/11 is how bad people's memory really are of the event. They remember the emotion of it but the details they're horrible at. Part of that is because people as John said in his book, Intentional Living, “People don't leave their lives, they just live them.” And John said that, you know, the benefit of uncertainties it keeps us focused on today, and I believe he even mentions in Intentional Living in this particular point, how does uncertainty—why should it ratchet us down to think more specifically, intentionally and carefully about today? Especially, if we have this sense that this particular moment is going to be relevant ten, twenty, thirty years down the road. Why do we need to be more focused on today during times like this?
Mark Cole: Boy, so I don't want to get into the psychology of it because my education does not lend me to be as proficient in that. But we as human beings want control. We want to be in control, and in times of uncertainty, we lose control of the future. So, we grasp for control of the present. And so I think part of the reason that we need to be focused on today, especially in times of this significant of a crisis is because we can't predict tomorrow. Tomorrow's less predictable. So why spend time as a leader that will maximize time and maximize effort and energy? Why don't we spend too much time? Not no time, I disagree with that, but spend too much time on trying to forecast the future. So, bring it back down. And what do you have right in front of you today? That's number one. Number two, goes back to a point John made with me in a mentoring session he had with me this past weekend. He said, “Mark, if you're not careful, you can spend so much time thinking about the future that you miss two things about the present. One, you missed the lesson of the present. You missed what you're supposed to be learning through this crisis because you're so worried about getting through the crisis. And then secondly, I think the danger that we have is we don't allow ourselves to be resilient today because we're too optimistic about the future. So, we don't learn the discipline of staying the course and being focused on today because we're so hopeful that tomorrow is going to get us out of today. Don't rush today there is a purpose to today.” That's why John asked the question, every evening he asked these questions. “Did I lead well today? Did I live well today?” If I spend all of my day in this current time, Jason, 10 leadership members, plus me 11 leadership team members if I spend all of my time challenging you guys for the future, and I don't spend time caring for the troubles and the burdens and the cares that my team is dealing with today, I may get to the future, but I won't have anybody with me because I was irrelevant to leading well today and living well today because I was so focused on a future that I can't even control anyway.
Jason Brooks: I mean, that is such a, like, I'm literally, I'm going to have to come back and unpack that later on, because I've never considered that people take today for granted because they take the future for granted which makes sense. I mean, if you're going to take one for granted you probably taking everything for granted. But John said this during this, during this talk, he said, “We will either build in the crisis, or we’ll be buried by the crisis.” How do we as business leaders, business owners, team leaders, whatever, how do we build instead of get buried by through the power of intentional thinking? How does intentional thinking help us build instead of get overwhelmed?
Mark Cole: I think one is recognizing there is value in today. We're so ready as leaders, to get out of the crisis that we don't understand there is purpose to the crisis. That's what John's trying to get us to do. Embrace the benefits of uncertainty. Being uncertain in times like this is not only okay as a leader, let me give you permission Mr. Mrs. leader that's listening to this call. It's okay to be uncertain right now. But guess what? It's more than just being okay with uncertainty, it's good to be uncertain. You need to give up some of that control so that you can have your hands free to pick up something from today to build on tomorrow. But we're so worried about grasping the uncertainty in the future. We're so worried about taking us to the future, we don't slow down and realize the value, the significance of what we have right here. And we can even get buried by being too optimistic in building the future that we don't realize we need to make the most of this crisis and the uncertainty of this crisis to even have the future. We think buried means we give up, we have no future, we are challenged, we're all dejected, that is buried. But buried is also so focused on tomorrow that you lose relevancy today. You're still done.
Jason Brooks: Holy cow! Let's move on to the next point. And you know, if there's one that you want to get to just holler it out, but we'll keep blazing through as best we can. John said that uncertainty also reintroduces us to humility. And I love the idea is a reintroduction. How does uncertainty do that? And why do we lose that humility in the first place?
Mark Cole: You know, I didn't spend much time Jason and we will in the future because I really am here. I didn't spend much time on point number two, that leadership provides opportunities that or, sorry, that crisis that benefits of a uncertainty is it provides leadership opportunities. I'm in that right now. I've never been more extended financially, extended as a leader, extended as leading in such a time have never led than I am today. Never. It's our moment. I mean, six weeks ago, we closed on acquiring the John Maxwell Company and making that one company. We can talk more about that in a future podcast, but it's a pivotal moment for John. It's a pivotal moment for me. It's a pivotal moment for our leadership team. And there's never been more opportunity than right now. And so, I'm not going to go back and dig in number two, but let me make a point so I can answer your question on number four. It reintroduces us to humility. I've never been more certain in my life with all of that uncertainty, that this is our time, Jason, to lead. It's my time. I am confident that right now is the best time in my life to lead. That confidence can come across as so aloof, that people feel like I'm irrelevant, and that I have a deaf ear to the challenges that we're in right now. I can come across and I can say it's no better time. It's a better time because I really do believe that. But I got to also tell you that I realized right now, Jason, more than I've ever realized in my life, how much I need good, incredible people around me. I did what we call a CEO corner yesterday with our entire staff and it's just being available to the team and I didn't intentionally do this it just came out of a place deep in my heart. I finished the session. It was a Zoom call 55 or so of our team members on there. And I did it by trying to look them deep through the camera lens on my computer and thanking them for being on the team. For thanking them for trusting me during a time like this, thanking them for being in the journey with me. And I think that's where John says, humility doesn't mean that we think less of ourselves, humility does mean that we think of ourselves less. And I love that definition of humility because back to point number two, I'm confident this is our time to lead. We're going to come through this and our future is brilliant. But I don't want that to be about me and my leadership, even though I've got to sound a certain sound to everyone that we're going to be okay I'm not nervous. I'm not sitting at home, not sleeping. But the idea of humility is that this process has got to be less about me and more about our team. And I think that's the point of humility John's making here.
Jason Brooks: I love that because, you know, one of the things that I've learned is that I'd heard the definition of humility is not thinking of yourself less, it's just thinking of others more. But as I have gone through and wrestled with this idea, humility is being able to truthfully understand your strengths and your weaknesses, to be accepting of them. And I see how you're uncertainty kind of reintroduces that to us because there are times that you know, when things are going well, man, when everything is great, it's easy to lose track of the weaknesses or it's easy to take for granted the strengths that you have, When it bounces off the wall, and it just goes haywire the way it does, we have to re-learn who we are and remember what we're capable of, and I just thought it was a really great point. And that actually kind of leads into—Oh, go ahead!
Mark Cole: I want to say one thing before you go to the next point. So many times, we look at leaders that are sounding that certain sound that are giving us confidence that everything's going to be okay. And we're saying this lesson John’s teaching right here is about the leader. And I am a leader and I'm not advocating the point that john is making that is relevant to me. But I'm talking on this podcast to a lot of people that you're not in a leadership position. In fact, you feel like that you are a pawn on somebody else's chessboard. You're just the dispensable piece that they're moving to position, the more strategic pieces. And I know you're out there, I know that. I got to tell you, humility in this point that John is making applies to you too, in crisis. It's not just the leader that needs to have humility. We're all in this together. Humility again, doesn't mean that we think less of ourselves. It means that we think of ourselves less. And for all of us that are going through this crisis, I have a team filled of people that does not have a title position in our organization. And when we get through this, not if we get through this, when we get through this, it will be on their backs. Because they have learned this humility lesson that says, “It's not about thinking of ourselves less, we're dispensable. It's about thinking of ourselves less so that our team, our vision can come out of this and be bigger, better and brighter because of it.”
Jason Brooks: Man, that's I love that. And one of the things that's great about our team is that they're willing to work as hard as they do without formal titles or whatever, which, yeah, that's 100%, that's the way our ethos is, that's the essence of John's teaching. You don't need a position to be a leader. You just need to be someone who can influence others. But we are we are surrounded by people who are creative, thoughtful. And John talks about in his fifth point, he says that one of the benefits of uncertainty is that it creates an opportunity to be creative. So how does uncertainty unlock our creativity? And what's the difference between creativity during certain times and creativity during uncertain times?
Mark Cole: Well, I think the things that is consistent about creativity is always believing there's an answer, you know, even when we're not in crisis mode, but we're an opportunity mode that season that by the way, we were all in about what? Was it eight weeks ago? Feels like forever ago, but we were in this opportunity. Oh, my goodness, we have so much opportunity. We still have to be creative in those moments to understand how to pull those opportunities off. And, John teaches this as you heard him and have heard him many times that a creative person not only believes there's always an answer, and don't us creative types always believe that? We also believe there's always more than one answer. We don't pigeonhole ourselves in thinking there's only one way out of the crisis or there's only one way to accomplish the opportunity. And I think that is a consistent nature of crisis creativity and non-crisis or opportunity creativity. There is the belief there is an answer, and there's more than one. You know, if I sit back in my home office today, where we're recording this podcast via Zoom, and I went, “Man, there's only one way to get us out of this crisis.” I wouldn't be very creative. I think there's multiple ways and I'm telling you, Jason, when we get done with this recording today, I'm going to go back and I'm going to try to find two or three more, because I believe that's the creative element is we need to have options. And I think that's what John is saying right here, “Never allow an opportunity or a crisis to box you in to having no options.” It's not a leadership posture that says, “Well, I'm just waiting on somebody to tell me how to get out of this crisis both personally or as a leader of teams, or as an owner of companies.” We need to become, we need to become claustrophobic when it relates to options, even in crisis, don't close me in don't box me in. Let me find an answer through creativity to get out of this. I'm going to do an unplugged or a Candid Conversation with John Maxwell about what I'm getting ready to tell you. I hadn't even given him these numbers yet. Do you know in the last four weeks, Jason, we have an impact with John's voice, so this is his speaking voice, we have impacted in the last four weeks 25% more people with John's voice in four weeks than we did all of last year. You know why? Because of a creative team. Now, we haven't figured out the business model of that yet, but we will. But I'll tell you what, that business model has always been secondary to us. Our primary, reason John got into this, the reason I got into this was to impact people to add value to people who could multiply value to others. And already since this crisis started 25% more in four weeks than we did all last year combined. Because of creativity. And so, Jason, here's what I liked, I’ve talked a good bit here, you shared this with the leadership team. I'd love for you or maybe you didn't, because I think you might have slipped out when we were sharing.
Jason Brooks: Yeah, I stepped out.
Mark Cole: Yeah, but I want you to share, why was this your greatest takeaway?
Jason Brooks: Well, the next point that John makes is, is uncertainty tests our teaching, there's a quote from C.S. Lewis that talks about courage is not the principal virtues, it's the testing of all virtues in one point. That's not an exact quote, but that's, that's the theme of it. And I know outside of business, I'm going through some medical challenges right now. So, there are a lot of uncertainties in my life. And yet, I have repeatedly and consistently and with no insincerity, been able to tell people I am at peace more now than I've ever been in my life. With everything that's going on with all the different things that we're trying to figure out, I am at peace in part of it is because the things that I've come to believe and know and hold true, have been tested by this uncertainty and they have held true through the uncertainty. Now I know we're not all the way through it. I know that there's, who knows how much more to go. Depends on who you ask. But it's the ability of knowing that where I want to go in my life, what I want to do with my life, this great time of uncertainty is a foundational building block for my continued moral authority as John put it. That it's in the uncertainty that when the things you teach and the things you say, match up and line up, when you walk walks and your talk talks and you're talking walk matches, uncertainty is going to reveal that and that's been one of the things that John has said from the beginning with his teachings, but this really stood out to me because I can look back in my life and I can find multiple testing points where the things that I believed and taught and held deeply really got put under the microscope because of circumstances around me or circumstances that were directly happening to me and I'm not ashamed to admit that there have been at least two occasions where I've had to literally throw my entire philosophy and worldview out the window because it did not function with reality. And it just as I've gotten older, as I have rebuilt as I've gotten smarter about how I learned as I've gotten more intentional with my growth is I've become more intentional about how I live my life. This truth really stands out to me because You know, there's the old saying there's no atheists in foxholes. You know, nobody wants to be that certain when things are that uncertain. But I think there's a lot more to it in the sense of if you have really done the hard work, and it is hard work. And that's why I think so many people shy away from it. But if you have done the hard work, to know your values, to live according to your values, to grow in your values, to invest in yourself, to grow yourself to become a better version of yourself tomorrow than you were today, if you have done that hard work. Then when uncertainty comes, that teaching finds new life, it finds a deeper resonance, or at least it does for me, because there are some statements that I have made over the last several weeks that just come from a place of genuine, I 100% believe this and I'm not afraid. And it's just a place I've never been before. It is really nice to have the core of who I am revealed as something trustworthy and foundationally good. And sometimes it takes uncertainty to bring that up. So that's why that point stood out to me.
Mark Cole: What I really, as we wrap up today, and thank you guys for tuning into a little bit longer than usual podcast. Jason, I've got to tell you, I'm so glad I felt prompted to ask you to share your thoughts on that because, like you said, the Coronavirus to all of us to everyone listening to this podcast, we are being significantly impacted by pot by the Coronavirus crisis but having being a friend a brother, a coworker, a co-leader with Jason, somebody that we're we've got big things to do together Jason's personal crisis is much bigger than the Coronavirus. The Coronavirus is big it's impacting Jason, it’s impacted his family but there is a crisis around you that because we're in a public a global crisis, we feel like we're all in this crisis together. But do you know that eight weeks ago people were having crisis around you? Do you know that one day from now people will have a crisis in their life that feels like the Coronavirus is pale by comparison? And my challenge to you and I on the podcast is exactly what Jason just said is, is what you teach, is what you value, is who you want to be who you've been saying you are, is that able to not only stand up in your crisis? Which may be the biggest crisis you're having right now is Coronavirus. Or, is that your teaching big enough to help others through their crisis that may or may not even be Coronavirus related. I think one of the things that John says is the Embracing of Benefits of Uncertainty is it makes us all more aware of ourselves and of those around us. And Jason, I got to tell you, my friend, you are living out your teaching. You're testing it, you're living it out, and you're proving that it works. And by the way, all of you listening on this podcast, I believe that Coronavirus or another personal crisis. I believe that the benefit of this uncertainty is the opportunity you have to really test your values, your vision, your purpose, who you say you are, are you as Jason said, walking the walk talking to talk? Are you living out what you and Jason in our world we call that being a product of the product. Are you a product that when tested with crisis, steel, is a quality product. And I hope you've been challenged today. I certainly have, John challenged as Jason and I went a little long intentionally, so that we could dig into this. We didn't want to make this a part one, part two, we want you to have it in its entirety, because this message is for this time, and this time, is your time to lead. Let's lead. Thank you for joining the John Maxwell Leadership Podcast. We will see you next week, next episode.
Jason Brooks: Hey Mark, if you don't mind real quick, just a reminder for those that are listening, if you haven't subscribed, please do! We would love to have your subscription. You're also welcome to go by Maxwellpodcast.com, and leave us some comments, and if you'd like to get the notes for today's talk from John, you can go to Maxwellpodcast.com/benefit, click on the “Bonus Resource” button, and then you'll be able to grab those notes. But brother, it was awesome to talk to you today! What great content from John and I'm looking forward to what's coming next week!